similarminds.com

[ghost-logic]

yes! bow down to our superior spelling abilities!! muhahaha\

anyways, I don't find myself trying to mold my thoughts around myself. I may have a bit of a superiority complex, but that dosen't effect how I think.

[invicta]

really though--there's no logical reason to assume that a high percentage of will equals a low percentage of openness. they are not one and the same.

surely someone as openminded and intelligent as an INTP can understand that?

[ghost-logic]

im sory but what do you seek to accomplish here? you come to tell us your opinion that intj's are egomaniacle and not as intellegent as intp's? or are you trying to spark up a coversation?

[Vylence]

I posted specifically to temper earlier remarks. INTJs are not the epitome of intellegence, I infact see them as flawed. Anyone who lets themselves and their beliefs stand in the way can only be seen as detrimental. I would think that INTJs are much more likely to delude themselves into false conclusions.

Invicta I can't possibly see how you can't see the link between having a strong will and not being open. Seems pretty clear to me. People with great will arn't open simply because they believe themselves to more often be correct. A person with no will, will try anything.
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9w1 sx, INTP

[ghost-logic]

yeah I'll give you that INTJ's have a great deal of 'will', but with reason of course. We don't believe something just because 'we' think it is right, we believe something because it makes the most sense logicly. If we find something that makes even more sense, we will do a 180 in that direction.

[invicta]

oh good vylence--i can tell you how wrong you are.

will is related to independence, not cynicism. all explorers and inventors benefit from a strong independent nature.

equating indecision with openness is 100% wrong as well--passivity is in no way synonymous with intelligence.

[Vagabond]

Um... is this an 'us' versus 'you' and who is the best debate or am I just sleepy..? Please tell me I am just sleepy.
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Ο δικός μου ο δρόμος μ' έχει χρόνια διαλέξει...
INTP 5w4 sp/sx

[Vylence]

Relate indecision with openness? I never said such a thing, but on the other hand passive people are more open than dominate people.

And I don't believe being open has anything to do with intellegence. I don't know where you pulling this stuff from, I'm not talking of cynacism. Its simple to see that strong willed people are less open then people who have no will.

A gun doesn't care how you use it, its people that determine its use. It has no will and is open to however you care to use it. On the otherhand lets take something with will, like a cat. Cats deffinatly don't want you doing this, don't want you doing that. Its easy to see here that the cat has more will and is less open. This is simple logic you should get Invicta.
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9w1 sx, INTP

[invicta]

Vagabond, I didn't start this, and I don't place value judgments on MBTI types. I am attempting to clarify a misunderstanding concerning the Judging function, however.

Vylence--the ability to acheive objectives using strategy, 'Will', or 'Judging' is not a form of elective blindness to options. You are misinformed, underinformed, or confused. Judging is not ignoring options, it is the weighing of options according to their usefulness in any given strategy. Such options can and often are changed for more useful options as they are made evident. The goal itself, however, does not change--one doesn't 'decide' to want anything, one selects the most reasonable means of achieving it.

And on a side note--cats are finer animals than dogs. Cats are independent hunters, dogs are obeisant scavengers.

[Vagabond]

Bleh... I don't know why either of you take things so personally. If I think I am better than someone, and that someone thinks he is better than me, let him delude himself - that's how I see it. I think it is wrong to judge intelligence from our P/J functions anyway... I don't see how the fourth letter of our MBTI and intelligence are related. WTF? I think INTJs can be too absolute and maybe narrow minded when unhealthy, and INTPs can be too indecisive and incapable of focusing when unhealthy. I don't see how unhealthy Type A is better than unhealthy Type B though; I think healthy INTPs are stronger at considering all possible options/destinations, healthy INTJs are stronger at figuring out all possible ways to get there. And I don't see how one is better than the other.

Btw, what I meant initially was that I don't feel I 'belong' to my type (though I could claim to be quite in the middle on this one, heheh), so if the conclusion is that both INTPs and INTJs (and people in between) suck, who the hell cares... your opinion against mine.

Oh, and I don't see how either type has any resemblence to a dog. I don't think either INTPs or INTJs are known for their blind loyalty to their environment's authority figures.
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Ο δικός μου ο δρόμος μ' έχει χρόνια διαλέξει...
INTP 5w4 sp/sx

[invicta]

it's OK, i'm not taking it personally. it's a little interspecies tournament, that's all. a learning exercise, and a form of play. arguments can be 'healthy', although i disagree with the concept of determining mental health according to agreeableness. i don't think i'm better than anybody else.

i wasn't comparing people to dogs or cats, either. that's silly. cats are more advanced animals than dogs though--their willfulness is an asset. i was comparing animal to animal.

[Mooning]

[invicta]

i don't know about 'supposed to', i don't think i'd want to if i was supposed to anyway.

i like INFPs. the INFPs i've talked with usually instinctively know things that i might stumble over for days.

it's a little embarassing.

[ghost-logic]

Let's change the topic a bit if you don't mind

Do any of you INTJs, when alone and undistracted, think of a number of theorys or better ways of doing something? Everytime I'm by myself smoking or trying to get to sleep, my mind drifts into how/why things work, how they can be improved, different theorys of things (i.e. "how humans came to be", "underlyings of different sciences'/theorys (i.e. Myers Briggs Jung theory ), or any number of things along that line. Am I just weird or do all INTJs think like this?

On a side note, I try to talk to my brother about my theorys or what he thinks about a hypothetical question and he either tunes me out or asks me "what does that have to do with anything..." and ignores me. He's a ESFP by the way...yeah...imagin growing up all your life with someone who is the exact oppisite of you. Anyone else have that same problem?

[Guest_invicta]

yes, i theorize all the time. endlessly curious, and if i am interested in something i am happy.

but that's it for me--time to shut up for a while, i've been overly communicative lately, i'm getting a little intense.